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Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
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MrGreenTea Offline
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Post: #1
Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
I suffer with adrenal issues among other things in my dealings of chronic illness.

As per consideration of your general approval of Schisandra I ventured to the health food store and purchased this tonic branded by planetary herbals... http://www.planetaryherbals.com/products/GP1547 -- which purportedly contains 710 mg of Schisandra per serving, along with other strengthening and toning herbs.

The effects that proceeded from the very first dose were dramatic, ranging from quite unpleasant to beneficial.

The negatives Would include sudden shifts in mood that would include irritability along with general negative thinking accompanied by drowsiness. I also have experienced some heart palpitations which I think might be in result of the thyroid being stimulated as well(?)

The positives which seem to interchange between the Negatives is clearer thinking and a dramatically different texture of my hair(which has been Falling out for sometime now) being thicker and more healthy looking, along with the ceasing of the strange pulsing sensatBion I have in my right eye, Most likely an autoimmune issue but is somehow tied to, or at least alleviated, by higher function of the adrenals?
I'm confused on whether the formula is simply stimulating the adrenals and prompting further irritation and loss of function,
Or If all these symptoms Are simply the body trying to balance itself out.


Also, kind of off subject, but I'm curious your opinion of the use of Indium Sulfate as a dietary supplement, a supposed regulator of the HPA axis among other things.

Thanks for your time.
08-01-2012 04:42 PM
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Rzarector7 Offline
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RE: Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
I get similar reactions to this herb, mine are usually moreso excess stomach acid and I do get some anxiety as well. I feel this is a adrenal stimulant and not a calmative one? I know it is good for anxiety and this and that as an adaptogen but I don't do as well on this one by any means like I do say a Gotu Kola or Tulsi. Come to think of it all adaptogens are not for everyone, test it for a week and if you get worse then this herb is not for you (Try a more calming herb like say Tulsi which does me very well or Ashwagandha which is good as well).

I did get some of the positives you did as well so thats good. One other thing you mention with the eye! I get some kind of blip in my vision on my right side from this and Rosea Rhodolia for some reason? It is just a glitch I see when I blink and it is there literallly after I take each one every time! Some other adaptogens don't cause this but these two for some odd reason do? Maybe James will know? This also makes me quick tempered and very angry if I take it for a few days, nver liked that feeling from this or Fo Ti Root.
08-01-2012 08:41 PM
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MrGreenTea Offline
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RE: Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
Interesting...

I'm surprised you found Tulsi as a relaxant as I found this herb to be one of the worst offenders in regards to the stimulation/crash cycle. Then again, it's not really that surprising seeing as we are all different and respond differently to a variety of treatments.

In regards to the eye symptom I mentioned, mine is more constant and affected by other things such as foods that might spike blood sugar, but as I already mentioned, the stimulating of the adrenals seems to bring great relief to the strange sensation. Sensitivity to light seems to bring it about as well.

So many problems are interconnected... that's what proves so difficult in chronic illness. I too, struggle with stomach acid issues, but might I suggest it may be a lack-of production instead of surplus? I've made progression with such treatments that do not dilute stomach acid but support the integrity of lining-- such as Zinc Carnosine, Pine-nut Oil, DGL licorice(does have a mild dilution effect) and SauerKraut.

I believe in our case, it may very well be our adrenals have degraded to the point where almost anything that has an effect will prove stimulatory instead of the supportive adaptive properties we seek... the best source of information I've found in regards to Adrenal fatigue is Dr. Lam. http://www.drlam.com/articles/7mistakeso...atigue.asp

The page I linked to has been quite helpful in itself and a good place to start. I hope it proves beneficial for you as well.
08-02-2012 09:31 AM
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Rzarector7 Offline
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RE: Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
I agree our adrenals are probably in that condition! I have had anxiety and OCD for years so they probably were on the GO all the time and got tired! I used to chew tobacco as well which James said (Nicotine) really stresses the adrenals. Do you have Candida as well? I have had a problem with that for years.

Tulsi as I mentioned is very calming to me along with Gotu Kola, Schizandra will make me angry! I can tolerate it somewhat but the herb later that day makes me just angry and I don't like that. Fo Ti does this as well.

I am going to read the link you posted now, thanks.



Reading this wouldn't it be better to do an approach such as Nettle and Vitamin C from Amla or other natural sources long term? I mean use something and if it helps and you feel good and don't crash later on that seems to be the go. Nettle Leaf has helped me at times especially with allergies and Gotu Kola (Do not know if it stimulates Adrenals or not?) are seemingly good for me. I also liked the Amla Berry powder I got, teaspoon a day or so.


I might try this approach sides using Adaptogen after Adaptogen and go with what seems to do well in my body.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2012 01:42 PM by Rzarector7.)
08-02-2012 01:02 PM
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MrGreenTea Offline
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RE: Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
Funny... I chewed tobacco and smoked in my teenage years, and was also very prone to stress and negative attitude. I believe it was probably all a cumulative effect, with the main problem starting with adrenals and then moving onto digestion, thyroid etc.

Yes, at one point I had horrible difficulty with candida and just gut dysbosis in general. Thinking back, a trial of antibiotics is what really messed up my and sent me over the edge! At my worst, I was probably only having a bowel movement once every 3-4 days and it was not a good one either. Throw multiple chemical sensitivities and allergies on top of that as well, along with various other symptoms. I Wouldn't wish what I've been through on the worst of my enemies...( If I had any)

I've come a long way though, and I believe finishing up with the correction of my adrenals and digestion(where it all started) will be the final answer.

I've always been taking natural vitamin c source but haven't really given nettle a go... will look into and see how I tolerate.

For your candida, might I suggest Formula SF722, a special fatty acid that is not only an anti-fungal, but revertes the fungus back into the less harmful yeast form, which is handled by your immune system much easier. Helped me a lot with such problems..
08-02-2012 03:48 PM
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James Offline
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RE: Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
(08-01-2012 04:42 PM)MrGreenTea Wrote:  I suffer with adrenal issues among other things in my dealings of chronic illness.

As per consideration of your general approval of Schisandra I ventured to the health food store and purchased this tonic branded by planetary herbals... http://www.planetaryherbals.com/products/GP1547 -- which purportedly contains 710 mg of Schisandra per serving, along with other strengthening and toning herbs.

The effects that proceeded from the very first dose were dramatic, ranging from quite unpleasant to beneficial.

The negatives Would include sudden shifts in mood that would include irritability along with general negative thinking accompanied by drowsiness. I also have experienced some heart palpitations which I think might be in result of the thyroid being stimulated as well(?)

Arrhythmias are generally a result of decreased circulation to the heart muscle. This caused cells other than the nodes to function as nodes, called ectopic pacemakers. Since these fire independently of the nodes that control heart rhythm they cause abnormalities in the heart rhythm.

One thing that can cause this is allergic reactions since they increase the output of epinephrine, which constricts blood vessels. I don't see anything in the formula that would decrease blood flow to the heart so I suspect a mild allergic reaction to something in the formula.

Kicking the thyroid in to action will speed up the heart rate, but should not cause an arrhythmia.


The positives which seem to interchange between the Negatives is clearer thinking and a dramatically different texture of my hair(which has been Falling out for sometime now) being thicker and more healthy looking,

All that sounds like an increase in thyroid function.

along with the ceasing of the strange pulsing sensatBion I have in my right eye, Most likely an autoimmune issue but is somehow tied to, or at least alleviated, by higher function of the adrenals?

Autoimmune disorders do involve adrenal dysfunction. The adrenals help to regulate the production of high affinity (specific) antibodies, which are the "normal" antibodies. With adrenal dysfunction there can be an over abundance of low affinity (nonspecific) antibodies that occur in high levels with autoimmune disorders.

I'm confused on whether the formula is simply stimulating the adrenals and prompting further irritation and loss of function,
Or If all these symptoms Are simply the body trying to balance itself out.

It sounds like you are kicking in your thyroid through your adrenals. The adrenals do help regulate thyroid function.

The arrhythmia though still sounds like a mild allergic reaction. Allergies also stem from adrenal dysfunction.


Also, kind of off subject, but I'm curious your opinion of the use of Indium Sulfate as a dietary supplement, a supposed regulator of the HPA axis among other things.

I have never looked in to indium as far as health issues go.

Thanks for your time.

You're welcome.

http://www.MountainMistBotanicals.com
08-02-2012 10:08 PM
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James Offline
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RE: Surprising reaction to Schisandra formula
(08-01-2012 08:41 PM)Rzarector7 Wrote:  I get similar reactions to this herb, mine are usually moreso excess stomach acid and I do get some anxiety as well. I feel this is a adrenal stimulant and not a calmative one?

Schisandra itself is an adaptogen so it can help the adrenals to produce more epinephrine. On the other hand adaptogens often also control the release of epinephrine preventing over secretion. This is why very few adaptogens are actually central nervous system stimulants. I have never seen any evidence of schisandra being a central nervous system stimulant. And the formula the other poster was taking also contains cuscuta (dodder) seed, which is relaxing.


I know it is good for anxiety and this and that as an adaptogen but I don't do as well on this one by any means like I do say a Gotu Kola or Tulsi. Come to think of it all adaptogens are not for everyone, test it for a week and if you get worse then this herb is not for you (Try a more calming herb like say Tulsi which does me very well or Ashwagandha which is good as well).

I like ashwagandha not only for its adaptogenic and calming properties but also for its thyroid supporting properties.

I did get some of the positives you did as well so thats good. One other thing you mention with the eye! I get some kind of blip in my vision on my right side from this and Rosea Rhodolia for some reason?

Rhodiola (Arctic root) is a central nervous system stimulant. I don't ever use it since central nervous system stimulating adaptogens are not good for people with severe adrenal fatigue.

It is just a glitch I see when I blink and it is there literallly after I take each one every time! Some other adaptogens don't cause this but these two for some odd reason do? Maybe James will know?

The condition you are referring to is called blepharospasm and is caused from over activity in the part of the brain that controls the eyelid movement. Central nervous system stimulants can amp up the brain activity.

This also makes me quick tempered and very angry if I take it for a few days,

The adrenals control our stress responses. If your adrenals are already "crashed" the central nervous stimulation of the rhodiola will just make them worse decreasing your ability to deal with stress.

nver liked that feeling from this or Fo Ti Root.

Fo ti (he shou wu) should not create this problem. Raw fo ti is actually a stimulant laxative, but is rarely seen. Most of the fo ti on the market is prepared, which is done by cooking the fo ti in a black soybean sauce. This destroys the laxative properties. Instead the prepared fo ti is used for restoring hair color, improving sexual health, strengthening the liver and kidneys, etc.

The problem may be with the sulfites, which is commonly used as a preservative for fo ti. Some people have sulfite sensitivities.

http://www.MountainMistBotanicals.com
08-03-2012 02:36 AM
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