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coffee
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JC73 Offline
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Post: #1
coffee
Is there any scientific evidence I can site that will convince someone that coffee is harmful?My cousin has sited tons of evidence that coffee is healthy but pub med is light on data showing coffee to be unhealthy.We have debated this for several years now.
07-24-2012 06:34 AM
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Hypo Offline
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RE: coffee
Here's an old Curezone thread in which James cites several studies: http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1728176

(Also, FYI, you can search in Google for "subject + hveragerthi" to search for relevant posts made by James on the Curezone forums.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2012 06:45 AM by Hypo.)
07-24-2012 06:45 AM
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audible Offline
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RE: coffee
(07-24-2012 06:45 AM)Hypo Wrote:  Here's an old Curezone thread in which James cites several studies: http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1728176

(Also, FYI, you can search in Google for "subject + hveragerthi" to search for relevant posts made by James on the Curezone forums.

Thank you Hypo, great link. This discussion has been going on for years
and I am sure we will hear more in the future. I still drink coffee but just
to be somewhat good I get the organic kind.
07-24-2012 12:07 PM
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JC73 Offline
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RE: coffee
(07-24-2012 06:45 AM)Hypo Wrote:  Here's an old Curezone thread in which James cites several studies: http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1728176

(Also, FYI, you can search in Google for "subject + hveragerthi" to search for relevant posts made by James on the Curezone forums.


Thanks!
07-25-2012 06:37 AM
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James Offline
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Post: #5
RE: coffee
(07-24-2012 06:34 AM)JC73 Wrote:  Is there any scientific evidence I can site that will convince someone that coffee is harmful?My cousin has sited tons of evidence that coffee is healthy but pub med is light on data showing coffee to be unhealthy.We have debated this for several years now.

Here is an old post I did in response to someone's posting of newspaper and opinion site articles as evidence that coffee was healthy. The bolded parts are my reponses:

on the subject of coffee, I scoured the internet to find reliable sources on its health benefits. Type "coffee" into pubmed (the beloved scientific health-research website) and you will get almost 7,000 results back. Below are some of the major findings I found about health, life expectancy with consuming coffee................

•Heart Disease (up to 25% reduction in mortality risk (for women))

Coffee increases inflammation, which is what leads to heart disease. The high blood pressure from caffeine use also contributes.


•Diabetes (up to 60% reduced risk)

Try again, stimulants are well known for raising blood sugar:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/2...7220080128

http://www.drmirkin.com/diabetes/9897.html


•Dementia (up to 65% reduced risk)
•Colon Cancer (up to 25% reduced risk)

Again, tannins in coffee are carcinogens, which is why high intake of tannins has been linked to gastrointestinal cancers.


•Cirrhosis (up to 80% reduced risk)
• Gallstones (almost 50% reduced risk)

Try again:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12889685

"The findings do not support a hypothesis that coffee drinking may be protective against gallstone formation"


•Parkinson’s Disease (up to 80% reduced risk – probably because of caffeine)
•Headache Relief (because of the caffeine)

Very misleading. There are various types of headaches. But tannins in coffee can trigger migraines in some individuals. And long term use of caffeine crashes the adrenals leading to increased inflammation.


•Asthma Relief (caffeine again)

Again misleading. Caffeine, along with theophylline and theobromine can stop an acute asthma attack by acting as cyclic adenosine monophosphate phosphodiesterase inhibitors. But asthma is an allergic inflammatory reaction. Thus is clearly linked to adrenal dysfunction. So again, the regular use of caffeine can crash the adrenals increasing the incidence of asthma attacks.


•Cavity Protection (because of anti-bacterial and anti-adhesive properties of compounds within coffee)

You are referring to the tannins, which are also carcinogens and anti-nutrients.

Seems like you can find any Scientific study to support any argument if you just look close enough.

Yes, which is why unlike you I actually read the studies. This way I can see if they are human studies or non-applicable animal studies. I can also see how they were designed and interpreted as well as who funded the studies to make sure there are no conflicts of interest.


But I have to admit that it was really funny how you claimed all those newspaper articles and propaganda site articles were "studies". And even funnier how the actual studies you referenced that I looked at actually touted the health benefits of soy including the anti-cancer properties. That is what happens when people rely on the references from propaganda sites and don't bother to actually read the studies. They count on people being overwhelmed by the number of references so they will not actually read what the reference states. Instead they will assume that the site actually did their homework and was posting evidence to back their opinion rather than posting evidence contrary to their claims.

Credible and reliably accurate sources of so-called "Scientific studies"?

You mean like the newspaper articles you called "credible studies" or real studies? For example this study on the content of liver cancer causing aflatoxins in coffee:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12452679

Or the presence of cancer causing polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in coffee:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17941690

More on PAHs and cancer:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1469515/

Or carcinogenic tannins in coffee:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1629514

And let's not forget the fact I brought up before of how tannins block nutrient absorption:

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.p...1ee092fd38

See Chris, the trick is to first learn the difference between a newspaper article and a real study. Then it is easy to do the research finding the facts by looking at actual studies rather than relying on over hyped newspaper articles or propaganda sites.

http://www.MountainMistBotanicals.com
07-26-2012 06:05 AM
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James Offline
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Post: #6
RE: coffee
Here is a portion of another reply to this same person:

Again, I was not the one posting actual studies touting the health benefits of soy in your own post. Just because you did not bother to read your own references before posting them is not my problem.

For example re' Diabetes WebMD. Unless you know better than Frank Hu, MD, MPH, PhD, nutrition and epidemiology professor at the Harvard School of Public Health, reports that the data on coffee and type 2 diabetes is "pretty solid," based on more than 15 published studies.

And I can find just as many studies showing how caffeine is bad for diabetes. Not only does caffeine raise blood sugar and reduce insulin sensitivity, it also weakens the adrenals aggravating the autoimmune condition type 1 diabetes. Caffeine also increases epinephrine output, which constricts blood vessels in diabetics that develop most of their side effects from impaired circulation and rupturing of micro blood vessels from insulin damage. So the caffeine simply exacerbates the problem. Then there are the anti-nutrient tannins in coffee that lock of magnesium and chromium needed to maintain proper insulin sensitivity. There are the other anti-nutrients in coffee as well phytic acid and oxalic acid that your hero Mercola claim are "toxins" in soybeans. The crashing of the adrenals by caffeine also increases inflammation and combined with the cholesterol raising effects of coffee this just further increases the risk of heart disease, especially in diabetics.

Ironically, you talk about picking and choosing studies, which is exactly what you are doing. You mention 15 studies that you do not present for review, but instead choose one old study. Not different studies that can verify or refute the findings since Hu has already presented what you want to hear and present yourself.

I looked up Hu's research articles from Harvard and they only list ONE study on the effects of coffee on diabetes from 2004. So where are those other 14 studies so we can look at how they were done and if any of that research is current? By the way, from the Harvard website where they are referring to Hu's research they state:

"The researchers note that caffeine, the best known ingredient in regular coffee, is known to raise blood sugar and increase energy expenditure in the short-term, but its long-term effects are not well understood."

http://www.MountainMistBotanicals.com
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2012 06:10 AM by James.)
07-26-2012 06:09 AM
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