Liver function doesn't seem to improve with Live-R-ight

[Hypo]

Hello James,

I have been using your Live-R-ight formula for 2 months now (I empty 2 caps in my mouth about 20 to 30 minutes before meals), but I feel my liver still doesn't function very well.

Symptoms:
- Whenever I have a meal with substantial amounts of protein and/or fats, my face tends to breakout the day after. Overall I have a strong feeling that my body attempts to expel toxins through my skin because my liver isn't able to handle it all. (The skin pores on my face are fairly large and visible, and many are clogged by default. When I eat too much fat, protein or unhealthy foods, some of the clogged pores seem to get 'inflamed' and turn into heads/acne.)
- My skin still has a very light yellowish tint, which too seems to point towards poor liver functioning. (Nothing very serious though; my eyes don't have a yellowish tint.)

In the past I have done several 'liver flushes' and at this moment I am inclined to doing it again (even though I am aware that you strongly oppose them.)
I don't believe those liver flushes can help expel stones, but I do feel they somehow help to 'flush' the liver and give it a 'break'. (I remember they gave me a strong euphoric feeling and very clear skin the days after.)

Some other things you may need to know:
- My thyroid and adrenals neither function very well, although I have been taking your thyroid and adrenal tonic for two months too. I do feel my adrenals have improved somewhat (my eczema is gone), but overall my thyroid and/or adrenals still seem to be 'hypo' (e.g. I still have (ice-)cold feet frequently, coarse/brittle/dry hair, sparse outer eyebrows, rather dry skin, feel fatigued regularly, and gain fat easily ~possibly the latter also relate to the poor liver function? [by the way; I am a male, not overweight (BMI=21,5), moderately atheletic and exercise a couple of times a week])
- Other supplements I have been taking for two months now at the by you recommended doses are: TMG, zinc, chromium polynicotinate, magnesium malate, acerola cherry powder, lecithin granules, rice bran, and bee pollen.
- Overall I believe I eat a very healthy and balanced diet.

I would very much appreciate your thoughts on my situation. If there's anything else you need to know, please tell me.

Thanks a lot

[James]

(07-21-2012 02:10 AM)Hypo Wrote:  Hello James,

I have been using your Live-R-ight formula for 2 months now (I empty 2 caps in my mouth about 20 to 30 minutes before meals), but I feel my liver still doesn't function well.

Symptoms:
- Whenever I have a meal with substantial amounts of protein and/or fats, my face tends to breakout the day after. Overall I have a strong feeling that my body attempts to expel toxins through my skin because my liver isn't able to handle it all.

If by proteins and fats you are talking about animal sources then you are likely adding hormones to your system. Even if animals are organically raised the animals still produce their own hormones and therefore will be present in the meat and in even higher concentrations in the fats.

(The skin pores on my face are fairly large and visible, and many are clogged by default. Only when I eat too much fat, protein or unhealthy foods, some of the clogged pores seem to get 'inflamed' and turn into acne.)

Foods high in iodine such as beef and dairy can also cause breakouts as the iodine can inflame the follicles in some individuals.

- My skin still has a very light yellowish tint, which too seems to point towards poor liver functioning. (Nothing very serious though; my eyes don't have a yellowish tint.)

If the eyes are not also showing a yellow tint then I doubt that this is jaundice. Jaundice will generally result in overall body itching as well. And if the liver damage is severe enough to start causing jaundice then I would expect other symptoms as well such as light colored stools and dark brown urine. A blockage of the bile ducts can also cause this.

One other possibility is if you are consuming large amounts of foods rich in carotenoids this can give the skin a yellowish cast.

In the past I have done several 'liver flushes' and at this moment I am inclined to doing it again (even though I am aware that you strongly oppose them.)
I don't believe those liver flushes can help expel stones, but I do feel they somehow help to 'flush' the liver and give it a 'break'. (I remember they gave me a strong euphoric feeling and very clear skin the days after.)

"Liver flushing" can help people feel better by moving stagnant bile. What I disagree with are the claims that those squishy green balls people are passing are gallstones, or the extremely rare liver stones. Those balls do not have the color, texture, density or much of anything else in common with real gallstones. And people are not being warned of the dangers. If real stones are present the large amount of oil used in these "liver flushes" can cause such strong gallbladder contractions that they can force and lodge a real stone in the bile ducts causing a blockage. This can be quite dangerous possibly leading to pancreatitis and requiring emergency surgery. There are ways to actually cleanse the liver, which these "liver flushes" do not do. In fact the name itself is misleading as the oil contracts the gallbladder, it is not affecting the liver.

Various things can affect the gallbladder including infection, estrogen levels, progesterone levels, some medications, etc. "Liver flushing" does not address these causes of gallbladder problems either. If people actually want to correct the problem then they need to find and address the cause of the problem. And if they simply want to prevent stagnant bile they can often do this by adding small amounts of oil to each meal. This will not cause the dangers of consuming large amounts of oil if real gallstones are present.

Some other things you may need to know:
- My thyroid and adrenals neither function very well, although I have been taking your thyroid and adrenal tonic for two months too. I do feel my adrenals have improved somewhat (my eczema is gone), but overall my thyroid and/or adrenals still seem to be 'hypo' (e.g. I still have ice-cold feet frequently, coarse hair, rather dry skin, feel fatigued regularly, seem to gain fat easily ~possibly the latter also relate to the poor liver function? [by the way; I am not overweight (BMI=21,5) and exercise a couple of times each week])

If the liver is not functioning properly this can raise estrogen levels, which in turn can suppress the thyroid.

- Other supplements I have been taking for two months now at the by you recommended doses are: TMG, zinc, chromium polynicotinate, magnesium malate, acerola cherry powder, lecithin granules, rice bran, and bee pollen.
- Overall I believe I eat a very healthy and balanced diet.

I would very much appreciate your thoughts on my situation. If there's anything else you need to know, please tell me.

Thanks a lot

Mainly if you have had your liver enzymes checked and are you on any medications including over the counter and hormones. Also, what kind of proteins/fats are you consuming that cause problems for you.

[Hypo]

Hi James,

Many thanks thanks for your thoughts.

To answer your questions
I have never had my liver enzymes checked, nor have I ever used any over the counter medication or hormones. (FYI; I'm a male, 26 years old) Would you recommend having a liver enzymes check done?
Concerning the types of protein/fats I consume; my diet is quite varied; eggs (organic, about 6 a week), yogurt (organic, 1.5 cup a day or so), fish (2 or 3 times a week, typically salmon or cod, always wild-caught), lean meat (4 times a week; typically beef, lamb or turkey), occasionally some vegetarian (typically soy-based) products, and also some protein from beans and legumes (like peanut butter). Other protein and or fat sources would be olive oil and nuts. I don't eat much carotenoid rich foods by the way. I am aware my yogurt consumption might be considered 'high', but when I cut out dairy completely for over a year that did not make any noticeable difference. (I have actually experimented quite a lot with my diet, and even was 98% vegetarian (no dairy, no meat) for about half a year. That made no substantial difference either.)
Overall, I notice increased protein and/or fat consumption is usually associated by increased skin impurities. (The same seems to hold for consuming large amounts of calories.) But it doesn't really seem to matter what kind of fats/protein/calories I consume. Moreover, people around me seem to consume even larger amounts and do just fine. Overall it really seems the main culprit is 'a weak liver' and not (abnormal) 'overconsumption' of certain protein/fats/calories.

Concerning your iodine remark
I actually consciously chose to reintroduce yogurt into my diet amongst others for its iodine content (in order to support my thyroid). The fact that I really like the taste seems like a sign there's indeed something in it that my body needs.
For the same reason I have recently started to eat some wakame every day. Would you advise quitting that wakame consumption?

Estrogen dominance?
What do you think about the possibility that 'estrogen dominance' (or progesterone and/or testosterone deficiency) is the actual main cause behind my issues? (I have no idea though what would be causing this in the first place ~maybe drinking too much tap water out of plastic bottles? ~or too much dairy/meat after all?) While I am a male, it does seem that many of my symptoms correspond to estrogen dominance. In addition to the previously mentioned symptoms, I also recognize myself in the following: 'mood swings' (including feeling depressed from time to time), 'irritability' and 'having a hard time dealing with stress'. And although I don't have 'man boobs' my breasts are a bit puffy.. (Let's put it this way: my body has a tendency to accumulate fat on the front of my torso.) Furthermore I am a rather 'tranquil' male and never get aggressive. I suppose that compared to other males I probably do have low testosterone.
If you feel this could be a valid cause, what would you suggest to do about it? Should I try to raise both progesterone and testosterone??
I am already taking tribulus terrestris (1000mg/day) in order to increase testosterone. Apparently I also need an aromatase inhibitor (like nettle root) to prevent the testosterone from at least partially being converted into estrogen. What dosage do you recommend for the tribulus terrestris and nettle root?
Also, would you advise taking vitex (chaste tree berry)? I read it increases progesterone, and decreases both estrogen and testosterone. Is that what I want..?

Or maybe Celiac disease / gluten intolerance?
I have been reading more and more and more, and right now I am wondering if I might (also/instead) have Celiac disease or at least be gluten intolerant. I used to follow a low-gluten diet out of general health concerns, yet last 2 weeks I consumed way more than I normally do. For several days now the end of all my stools has been covered by a bit of bright red blood.. I doesn't hurt and I am pretty sure I don't have hemorrhoids. Other Celiac disease symptoms also seem familiar, among which most interestingly 'delayed puberty' (I was about 4 years 'late') and 'thyroid issues'.
How should I test whether or not I have true Celiac disease, gluten intolerance, or neither?

So many thanks for your help..

[Whitey]

Have you ever tried coffee enemas? They do a lot to help the body expel toxic bile and improve bile flow.

[Hypo]

Hi Whitey, thanks for your reply.

I actually have tried them (several years ago) and must admit that they made me feel very good and also hugely helped in clearing up my skin. (In that sense they seem to have an effect very similar to liver flushes.)

However, I eventually quit doing them because (1) they appeared to result in intestinal flora being expelled, (2) I read stories of people having become dependent upon them, and (3) because I felt it was just 'too unnatural'. (I'm very OK with alternative medicine, but it shouldn't get too crazy ;)

At this moment I am inclined to attribute the feeling good effect to the stimulating effect of the caffeine, and the clearing up skin effect to the bowels simply being emptied. (Similarly fasting results in clear skin.) As such I feel they don't really offer some unique 'value'. And in addition, given my hypo-thyroid and -adrenals, I don't want any (over)stimulation from caffeine..

By the way, James (also) seems to oppose them (see for instance this thread: http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1938721)

[James]

(07-21-2012 04:02 AM)Hypo Wrote:  Hi James,

Many thanks thanks for your thoughts.

To answer your questions
I have never had my liver enzymes checked, nor have I ever used any over the counter medication or hormones. (FYI; I'm a male, 26 years old) Would you recommend having a liver enzymes check done?

Yes, this would be a good idea. The enzymes are not really specific to the liver, but if they are elevated then the liver has likely sustained some damage.

Concerning the types of protein/fats I consume; my diet is quite varied; eggs (organic, about 6 a week), yogurt (organic, 1.5 cup a day or so), fish (2 or 3 times a week, typically salmon or cod, always wild-caught), lean meat (4 times a week; typically beef, lamb or turkey), occasionally some vegetarian (typically soy-based) products, and also some protein from beans and legumes (like peanut butter). Other protein and or fat sources would be olive oil and nuts. I don't eat much carotenoid rich foods by the way. I am aware my yogurt consumption might be considered 'high', but when I cut out dairy completely for over a year that did not make any noticeable difference. (I have actually experimented quite a lot with my diet, and even was 98% vegetarian (no dairy, no meat) for about half a year. That made no substantial difference either.)
Overall, I notice increased protein and/or fat consumption is usually associated by increased skin impurities. (The same seems to hold for consuming large amounts of calories.) But it doesn't really seem to matter what kind of fats/protein/calories I consume. Moreover, people around me seem to consume even larger amounts and do just fine. Overall it really seems the main culprit is 'a weak liver' and not (abnormal) 'overconsumption' of certain protein/fats/calories.

Concerning your iodine remark
I actually consciously chose to reintroduce yogurt into my diet amongst others for its iodine content (in order to support my thyroid). The fact that I really like the taste seems like a sign there's indeed something in it that my body needs.
For the same reason I have recently started to eat some wakame every day. Would you advise quitting that wakame consumption?

Wakame has other benefits as well such as immune support and glandular support so I recommend sticking to it.

Estrogen dominance?
What do you think about the possibility that 'estrogen dominance' (or progesterone and/or testosterone deficiency) is the actual main cause behind my issues? (I have no idea though what would be causing this in the first place ~maybe drinking too much tap water out of plastic bottles? ~or too much dairy/meat after all?)

Meats and dairy do tend to be high in hormones, even if organic since the animal produces its own hormones. And estrogens suppress the thyroid.

The tap water could be an issue depending on what is in your water. Most cities fluoridate and chlorinate their water, which both cause further thyroid suppression.

As for the water bottles it would depend on the type of plastic the bottle is made from. Some, but not all plastics contain estrogenic compounds.

While I am a male, it does seem that many of my symptoms correspond to estrogen dominance. In addition to the previously mentioned symptoms, I also recognize myself in the following: 'mood swings' (including feeling depressed from time to time), 'irritability' and 'having a hard time dealing with stress'. And although I don't have 'man boobs' my breasts are a bit puffy.. (Let's put it this way: my body has a tendency to accumulate fat on the front of my torso.) Furthermore I am a rather 'tranquil' male and never get aggressive. I suppose that compared to other males I probably do have low testosterone.

Hormones may be a slight issue here, but there seems to be more of an issue with the adrenal glands. This could cause problems such as the irritability and the fat deposition around the waist.

If you feel this could be a valid cause, what would you suggest to do about it?

Working on the adrenals would be a good start:

http://medcapsules.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2462

Should I try to raise both progesterone and testosterone??
I am already taking tribulus terrestris (1000mg/day) in order to increase testosterone. Apparently I also need an aromatase inhibitor (like nettle root) to prevent the testosterone from at least partially being converted into estrogen. What dosage do you recommend for the tribulus terrestris and nettle root?

I would need to know what form you are taking it in and if it is standardized or not. Dosage would vary depending on these factors.

Also, would you advise taking vitex (chaste tree berry)? I read it increases progesterone, and decreases both estrogen and testosterone. Is that what I want..?

No. If you are trying to raise your testosterone and maintain it with tribulus and nettle root then the vitex would be counterproductive.

And increasing progesterone can also increase irritability.

Or maybe Celiac disease / gluten intolerance?
I have been reading more and more and more, and right now I am wondering if I might (also/instead) have Celiac disease or at least be gluten intolerant.

The only thing that does not make sense about that is that your diet has little to no gluten in it.

I used to follow a low-gluten diet out of general health concerns, yet last 2 weeks I consumed way more than I normally do. For several days now the end of all my stools has been covered by a bit of bright red blood..

Bright red blood in the stools is normally from internal or external hemorrhoids. Or can be from a small tear that can occur from things like hard stools. Bleeding from further up in the intestines will look like black tar. From the stomach the blood will come out looking like coffee grounds.

I doesn't hurt and I am pretty sure I don't have hemorrhoids. Other Celiac disease symptoms also seem familiar, among which most interestingly 'delayed puberty' (I was about 4 years 'late') and 'thyroid issues'.

There are other reasons for these as well. Especially hypothyroidism, which has numerous causes.

How should I test whether or not I have true Celiac disease, gluten intolerance, or neither?

You can get tested, but I seriously doubt this is the issue. Testing involves antibody tests that are not that accurate and intestinal biopsies. So I personally would have to be pretty sure that this was a likely issue before I would undergo testing.

So many thanks for your help..

You're welcome.

[James]

(07-22-2012 08:11 AM)Whitey Wrote:  Have you ever tried coffee enemas? They do a lot to help the body expel toxic bile and improve bile flow.

They are also very hard on the adrenals. And crashing the adrenals can lead to a whole host of problems.

[Hypo]

(08-03-2012 10:50 PM)James Wrote:  Should I try to raise both progesterone and testosterone??
I am already taking tribulus terrestris (1000mg/day500mg/day) in order to increase testosterone. Apparently I also need an aromatase inhibitor (like nettle root) to prevent the testosterone from at least partially being converted into estrogen. What dosage do you recommend for the tribulus terrestris and nettle root?

I would need to know what form you are taking it in and if it is standardized or not. Dosage would vary depending on these factors.

The supplements I got have the following values per capsule:
- Tribulus terrestris: Tribulus terrestris (Standardized extract) (min. 45% Saponins) (Aerial Parts and Fruit) 500mg
- Nettle root: Stinging Nettle Extract (Urtica dioica) (Root) 250mg
Not sure if this is useful, but I also got Nettle leaf:
- 1 capsule = Standardized Stinging Nettle Extract (leaf) (silicic acid 3mg [1%]) 275mg + Raw Stinging Nettle Powder (leaf) 200mg
Please let me know what you would recommend.

Then I have a question about yogurt and estrogen:
Does yogurt consumption increase estrogen levels? I keep reading mixed answers; some say it does (due to the estrogen in milk), others argue yogurt actually helps to decrease estrogen levels through its positive effects on the gut flora (see for instance this website). What's your thought on this? Also, when being concerned about estrogen levels, would it be better to take water kefir instead of milk kefir?

[James]

(08-04-2012 02:54 AM)Hypo Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 10:50 PM)James Wrote:  Should I try to raise both progesterone and testosterone??
I am already taking tribulus terrestris (1000mg/day500mg/day) in order to increase testosterone. Apparently I also need an aromatase inhibitor (like nettle root) to prevent the testosterone from at least partially being converted into estrogen. What dosage do you recommend for the tribulus terrestris and nettle root?

I would need to know what form you are taking it in and if it is standardized or not. Dosage would vary depending on these factors.

The supplements I got have the following values per capsule:
- Tribulus terrestris: Tribulus terrestris (Standardized extract) (min. 45% Saponins) (Aerial Parts and Fruit) 500mg

This one I recommend 1 capsule three times daily at least 20 minutes before meals.

- Nettle root: Stinging Nettle Extract (Urtica dioica) (Root) 250mg

This says extract, but what kind of extract? Standardized? 4:1? 10:1?......

Not sure if this is useful, but I also got Nettle leaf:
- 1 capsule = Standardized Stinging Nettle Extract (leaf) (silicic acid 3mg [1%]) 275mg + Raw Stinging Nettle Powder (leaf) 200mg

Yes. This would be more for other things such as collagen support, but the leaf still provides beneficial sterols.

Please let me know what you would recommend.

Then I have a question about yogurt and estrogen:
Does yogurt consumption increase estrogen levels? I keep reading mixed answers; some say it does (due to the estrogen in milk), others argue yogurt actually helps to decrease estrogen levels through its positive effects on the gut flora (see for instance this website). What's your thought on this? Also, when being concerned about estrogen levels, would it be better to take water kefir instead of milk kefir?

It is going to be confusing since there is no straight forward answer. Dairy does contain estrogens, even if organic. Therefore, it would appear that dairy will automatically increase estrogen levels, which is true to an extent.

When we ingest estrogen containing products though the estrogen is still going to pass through the liver where if everything is working properly much of the estrogen will be metabolized right away. The intestinal flora then breaks down the estrogen metabolites.

Of course we have to keep in mind that not all the estrogen gets metabolized even if the liver is working properly, and many people do not have optimally functioning livers. So yes, there will be some rise in estrogen levels with the consumption of dairy. Most meats as well.

On the other hand we know that the bacteria in cultured foods can reduce estrogenic compounds such as phytoestrogens. Although I have not seen any evidence that these bacteria will reduce true estrogens it is possible they do.

Since there is no definitive proof that the bacteria reduce true estrogens it would be best to avoid dairy based cultured foods if you are worried about estrogens. Water or coconut kefir are both good choices.

[Hypo]

(08-05-2012 08:29 AM)James Wrote:  - Nettle root: Stinging Nettle Extract (Urtica dioica) (Root) 250mg

This says extract, but what kind of extract? Standardized? 4:1? 10:1?......

It doesn't give that information. It is this supplement: http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Nettle-Ro...-Vcaps/707 (Note it does say: *Stinging Nettle Extract typically contains 15 - 30 ppm of Scopoletin. Perhaps this is a clue with information about the standardization factor??)
Maybe I should just go with what the manufacturer says: "take 2 Vcaps 1 to 2 times daily"?

Then some other questions with respect to estrogen dominance;
I haven't mentioned this before (because I wasn't aware this was a symptom) but I do have some cherry angiomas (about 5 on my chest). I read these are hereditary (seems valid as my father has hundreds), but I also read they sign liver problems and estrogen dominance. My questions:
1) Given that the 2,5 months live-r-ight/bitter supplementation has not brought about significant improvements in my symptoms (see my previous posts), are the cherry angiomas a sign that estrogen dominance is the main culprit? (instead of a weak liver)
2) Estrogen dominance and progesterone dominance apparently have very similar symptoms; how to differentiate between the two of them?
3) How can I best address estrogen dominance? (Is cutting out most meat, all dairy, and taking the tribulus terrestris and nettle root all I can and should do?)

PS. You're right that my adrenals are weak as well and contribute to my symptoms; I'm already working on those. Just trying to identify the loose ends..

[James]

(08-05-2012 09:03 AM)Hypo Wrote:  

(08-05-2012 08:29 AM)James Wrote:  - Nettle root: Stinging Nettle Extract (Urtica dioica) (Root) 250mg

This says extract, but what kind of extract? Standardized? 4:1? 10:1?......

It doesn't give that information. It is this supplement: http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Nettle-Ro...-Vcaps/707 (Note it does say: *Stinging Nettle Extract typically contains 15 - 30 ppm of Scopoletin. Perhaps this is a clue with information about the standardization factor??)

Not really. That would indicate that it is a concentrated extract as opposed to a standardized extract, but to what extent it was concentrated is not known.

I am actually quite surprised that a company like NOW would be so vague on a label. I am pretty sure that they are a GMP manufacturing company, which would require very strict standards.

Maybe I should just go with what the manufacturer says: "take 2 Vcaps 1 to 2 times daily"?

Yes.

Then some other questions with respect to estrogen dominance;
I haven't mentioned this before (because I wasn't aware this was a symptom) but I do have some cherry angiomas (about 5 on my chest). I read these are hereditary (seems valid as my father has hundreds), but I also read they sign liver problems and estrogen dominance. My questions:
1) Given that the 2,5 months live-r-ight/bitter supplementation has not brought about significant improvements in my symptoms (see my previous posts), are the cherry angiomas a sign that estrogen dominance is the main culprit? (instead of a weak liver)

If they are hereditary in your case then the hormones would be of minor importance.

2) Estrogen dominance and progesterone dominance apparently have very similar symptoms; how to differentiate between the two of them?

That can be rather difficult. One of the best give-a-ways though is that progesterone dominance can cause irritability, acne and suppressed libido. Estrogen dominance is just the opposite.

3) How can I best address estrogen dominance? (Is cutting out most meat, all dairy, and taking the tribulus terrestris and nettle root all I can and should do?)

The bitters you are doing would be a great start. Also, the liver needs B6, B12 and folate to produce SAMe for methylation needed by the liver to break down extra estrogen. Therefore, B vitamin sources or a stronger methyl donor such as trimethylglycine (TMG) will assist the liver in breaking down excess estrogen.

Maintaining the flora with cultured foods and prebiotics (fibers) will help. The flora break down estrogen metabolites.

And if you are overweight losing weight will help since fat cells produce estrogen for the body.

PS. You're right that my adrenals are weak as well and contribute to my symptoms; I'm already working on those. Just trying to identify the loose ends..