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Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - mtl777 - 05-06-2013 04:02 PM

Hi James, I read from one of your posts in CZ that if you introduce ozone into a conventional steam sauna the ozone degrades rapidly into oxygen due to the hot ambient air and moisture inside the sauna. If you use a far infrared sauna instead, will you be able to avoid this problem since far infrared does not heat the ambient air (or if it does, only slightly)?

Also, is it true that if you are sweating you have to wipe off the sweat and turn off the heat to prevent further sweating otherwise the ozone won't be able to get in through the pores of your skin?

Lastly, if you're going to do this - sweat inside the sauna, get out of it, wipe off the sweat, rest for 3 minutes, get inside a full body ozone bag, and introduce ozone into the bag - what ozone concentration and flow rate would you suggest to use and for how many minutes?

Just trying to find better ways to do hyperthermic ozone therapy and make it more effective. Thanks in advance for your most appreciated help!


RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - James - 05-09-2013 03:23 AM

(05-06-2013 04:02 PM)mtl777 Wrote:  Hi James, I read from one of your posts in CZ that if you introduce ozone into a conventional steam sauna the ozone degrades rapidly into oxygen due to the hot ambient air and moisture inside the sauna.

Actually oxygen from the degradation of the ozone and peroxide by reaction of the ozone with the moisture. If using a hot corona or ultraviolet unit with air there will also be acids formed then the sulfur and nitrogen oxides formed react with the moisture. These acids can burn the skin. Therefore, cold corona units really should be used.

If you use a far infrared sauna instead, will you be able to avoid this problem since far infrared does not heat the ambient air (or if it does, only slightly)?

The ozone will still react with the moisture in sweat and compounds in the sweat such as salts and ammonia compounds breaking a lot of the ozone down before it can be absorbed. This is why I think ozone saunas are ridiculous to begin with. Insufflation and drinking ozonated water are much better choices.

Also, is it true that if you are sweating you have to wipe off the sweat and turn off the heat to prevent further sweating otherwise the ozone won't be able to get in through the pores of your skin?

Sweat does not necessarily block the ozone, again the problem is more of breaking down the ozone.

Lastly, if you're going to do this - sweat inside the sauna, get out of it, wipe off the sweat, rest for 3 minutes, get inside a full body ozone bag, and introduce ozone into the bag - what ozone concentration and flow rate would you suggest to use and for how many minutes?

Bagging with ozone is good for certain applications such as treating gangrene in a limb, treating burns or herpes outbreaks, staph infections of the skin, etc. For something like colon cancer or liver cancer definitely not.

Just trying to find better ways to do hyperthermic ozone therapy and make it more effective. Thanks in advance for your most appreciated help!

Again, for what you are using it for hyperthermic ozone is not the answer. Insufflation and even drinking ozonated water is going to be far superior.

Also keep in mind that it is not a good idea to kill off too many cancer cells too quick as the dead cellular debris is infectious to the body. I recommending sticking to the insufflation primarily with a lot of water throughout the day. The water does not need to be ozonated each time, but maybe 3-4 times daily.



RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - mtl777 - 05-09-2013 08:30 PM

Thanks James for replying!

(05-09-2013 03:23 AM)James Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 04:02 PM)mtl777 Wrote:  If you use a far infrared sauna instead, will you be able to avoid this problem since far infrared does not heat the ambient air (or if it does, only slightly)?

The ozone will still react with the moisture in sweat and compounds in the sweat such as salts and ammonia compounds breaking a lot of the ozone down before it can be absorbed. This is why I think ozone saunas are ridiculous to begin with. Insufflation and drinking ozonated water are much better choices.

Proponents of ozone saunas argue that with a high enough flow rate, not all of the ozone are broken down and some of it is still absorbed. Something like if the rate of replenishment is sufficiently greater than the rate of breaking down of the ozone, then the rate differential still results in absorption of some ozone. What do you think of this?

Quote:Also, is it true that if you are sweating you have to wipe off the sweat and turn off the heat to prevent further sweating otherwise the ozone won't be able to get in through the pores of your skin?

Sweat does not necessarily block the ozone, again the problem is more of breaking down the ozone.

Right. That's why I thought of getting out of the sauna, wiping off the sweat, getting inside a full body ozone bag, and introducing ozone into the bag. At this point the pores of the skin are still open due to the sauna that just finished. With the sweat wiped off there is no more sweat to break down the ozone, and with the pores still open, ozone can easily be absorbed through the pores. At least that's what I hope to achieve in coming up with this idea -- in theory. Do you think it will work like I envision it in practice?

So, assuming that this method will work as I envision it, i.e., the ozone is really able to be absorbed through the pores and then it circulates in the lymph system and maybe also in the bloodstream, what ozone concentration and flow rate would you suggest to use and for how many minutes?

Quote:Bagging with ozone is good for certain applications such as treating gangrene in a limb, treating burns or herpes outbreaks, staph infections of the skin, etc. For something like colon cancer or liver cancer definitely not.

Just trying to find better ways to do hyperthermic ozone therapy and make it more effective. Thanks in advance for your most appreciated help!

Again, for what you are using it for hyperthermic ozone is not the answer. Insufflation and even drinking ozonated water is going to be far superior.

I'm exploring this idea of hyperthermia followed quickly by ozone bagging because, first of all, just hyperthermia alone already has benefits of its own. Secondly, if rectal insufflation is not an option due to the patient's diverting colostomy, I would like to find another good way to get ozone into his body, and maybe bagging would be a good way if done like I described.

Is the reason why you're advising against full body ozone bagging because it affects only the surface of the skin and does not allow ozone to get deep inside the body? But what if the pores of the skin are opened like I envisioned with the method I described? Wouldn't that allow the ozone to get deep inside, maybe even reaching the tumor eventually?

Quote:Also keep in mind that it is not a good idea to kill off too many cancer cells too quick as the dead cellular debris is infectious to the body. I recommending sticking to the insufflation primarily with a lot of water throughout the day. The water does not need to be ozonated each time, but maybe 3-4 times daily.

On the other hand, I thought of hyperthermia as a possibly effective way of releasing toxins and dead cellular debris through the sweat -- by inducing profuse sweating. Because, isn't the lymph system another pathway for releasing dead cellular debris from the body? And if you apply ozone transdermally right after hyperthermia, wouldn't the ozone kill off any remaining infectious debris in the lymph rendering them harmless? Just my conceptions but I'm not really sure if this is what happens so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Your replies are very helpful and much appreciated. Thanks again!


RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - James - 05-16-2013 02:35 AM

(05-09-2013 08:30 PM)mtl777 Wrote:  Thanks James for replying!

(05-09-2013 03:23 AM)James Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 04:02 PM)mtl777 Wrote:  If you use a far infrared sauna instead, will you be able to avoid this problem since far infrared does not heat the ambient air (or if it does, only slightly)?

The ozone will still react with the moisture in sweat and compounds in the sweat such as salts and ammonia compounds breaking a lot of the ozone down before it can be absorbed. This is why I think ozone saunas are ridiculous to begin with. Insufflation and drinking ozonated water are much better choices.

Proponents of ozone saunas argue that with a high enough flow rate, not all of the ozone are broken down and some of it is still absorbed. Something like if the rate of replenishment is sufficiently greater than the rate of breaking down of the ozone, then the rate differential still results in absorption of some ozone. What do you think of this?

Yes, some ozone will still absorb. How much is "some" though. Enough to do much good? The problem is that there are so many variables that how much gets absorbed and whether that is a sufficient level is unknown.

Quote:Also, is it true that if you are sweating you have to wipe off the sweat and turn off the heat to prevent further sweating otherwise the ozone won't be able to get in through the pores of your skin?

Sweat does not necessarily block the ozone, again the problem is more of breaking down the ozone.

Right. That's why I thought of getting out of the sauna, wiping off the sweat, getting inside a full body ozone bag, and introducing ozone into the bag. At this point the pores of the skin are still open due to the sauna that just finished. With the sweat wiped off there is no more sweat to break down the ozone, and with the pores still open, ozone can easily be absorbed through the pores. At least that's what I hope to achieve in coming up with this idea -- in theory. Do you think it will work like I envision it in practice?

Not necessarily. Keep in mind that in a bag you are still going to sweat. And in addition, just wiping off the sweat does not remove all the moisture, salts, ammonia compounds, bacteria, etc. that the ozone can react.

So, assuming that this method will work as I envision it, i.e., the ozone is really able to be absorbed through the pores and then it circulates in the lymph system and maybe also in the bloodstream, what ozone concentration and flow rate would you suggest to use and for how many minutes?

I still would not recommend this method. There are better methods of administration and again ozone diffuses in to the tissues rapidly. So whether it is injected, done through insufflation or if you drink ozonated water the ozone will get to the tissues throughout the body.

Also, i have seen people chemically burned by using hot corona machines they were told were cold with an air source instead of oxygen. This leads to the formation of acids in contact with the sweat.

And you need to be careful to keep the ozone from escaping up in to the face where it can be inhaled.

If you still want to give this a try you will want a higher concentration, 90 gamma or higher and 20 minutes at a time would be fine. Remember that ozone takes time to absorb through the skin. And it takes time to breaks down. Therefore, after turning off the machine you can stay in the sauna for a little longer to allow time for the remaining ozone to absorb and break down before opening the sauna.


Quote:Bagging with ozone is good for certain applications such as treating gangrene in a limb, treating burns or herpes outbreaks, staph infections of the skin, etc. For something like colon cancer or liver cancer definitely not.

Just trying to find better ways to do hyperthermic ozone therapy and make it more effective. Thanks in advance for your most appreciated help!

Again, for what you are using it for hyperthermic ozone is not the answer. Insufflation and even drinking ozonated water is going to be far superior.

I'm exploring this idea of hyperthermia followed quickly by ozone bagging because, first of all, just hyperthermia alone already has benefits of its own.

If you are talking about hyperthermia for cancer, yes this will work for cancer. When talking about hyperthermia though this is not done by far infrared. Instead the tumor is subjected to radiofrequency, which creates frictional heating within the tumor literally "cooking" the tumor since cancerous tumors cannot dissipate heat as readily as healthy tissue.

Secondly, if rectal insufflation is not an option due to the patient's diverting colostomy, I would like to find another good way to get ozone into his body, and maybe bagging would be a good way if done like I described.

Is the reason why you're advising against full body ozone bagging because it affects only the surface of the skin and does not allow ozone to get deep inside the body? But what if the pores of the skin are opened like I envisioned with the method I described? Wouldn't that allow the ozone to get deep inside, maybe even reaching the tumor eventually?

Again, not as effective as something like injection, autohemotherapy, insufflation or ozonated water. Saunas are going to be one of the least effective ways based on the reasons stated previously.

Quote:Also keep in mind that it is not a good idea to kill off too many cancer cells too quick as the dead cellular debris is infectious to the body. I recommending sticking to the insufflation primarily with a lot of water throughout the day. The water does not need to be ozonated each time, but maybe 3-4 times daily.

On the other hand, I thought of hyperthermia as a possibly effective way of releasing toxins and dead cellular debris through the sweat -- by inducing profuse sweating. Because, isn't the lymph system another pathway for releasing dead cellular debris from the body? And if you apply ozone transdermally right after hyperthermia, wouldn't the ozone kill off any remaining infectious debris in the lymph rendering them harmless? Just my conceptions but I'm not really sure if this is what happens so please correct me if I'm wrong.

The "toxins" that are released through sweat are primarily ammonia compounds, not cellular debris. Cellular debris will be dealt with through the immune system and eliminated through feces.

As far as the transdermal application the problem still remains that if only "some" of the ozone gets absorbed is that "some" amount going to be sufficient to do much of anything? Since most of the ozone will never get absorbed it is hard to say. This is why I would not rely on the sauna method as a primary means of ozone administration.


Your replies are very helpful and much appreciated. Thanks again!



RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - mtl777 - 05-18-2013 05:57 PM

Quote:Proponents of ozone saunas argue that with a high enough flow rate, not all of the ozone are broken down and some of it is still absorbed. Something like if the rate of replenishment is sufficiently greater than the rate of breaking down of the ozone, then the rate differential still results in absorption of some ozone. What do you think of this?

Yes, some ozone will still absorb. How much is "some" though. Enough to do much good? The problem is that there are so many variables that how much gets absorbed and whether that is a sufficient level is unknown.

I guess you could turn up the flow rate so that hopefully more ozone will be absorbed. But then the ozone concentration will decrease if you do that. Sigh Undecided

Quote:Also, is it true that if you are sweating you have to wipe off the sweat and turn off the heat to prevent further sweating otherwise the ozone won't be able to get in through the pores of your skin?

Sweat does not necessarily block the ozone, again the problem is more of breaking down the ozone.

Right. That's why I thought of getting out of the sauna, wiping off the sweat, getting inside a full body ozone bag, and introducing ozone into the bag. At this point the pores of the skin are still open due to the sauna that just finished. With the sweat wiped off there is no more sweat to break down the ozone, and with the pores still open, ozone can easily be absorbed through the pores. At least that's what I hope to achieve in coming up with this idea -- in theory. Do you think it will work like I envision it in practice?

Not necessarily. Keep in mind that in a bag you are still going to sweat. And in addition, just wiping off the sweat does not remove all the moisture, salts, ammonia compounds, bacteria, etc. that the ozone can react.

I might have the wrong presumption that the pores are open. Do the pores really remain open shortly after finishing a sauna? If so, how long do they remain open after body exposure to heat is stopped?

Quote:So, assuming that this method will work as I envision it, i.e., the ozone is really able to be absorbed through the pores and then it circulates in the lymph system and maybe also in the bloodstream, what ozone concentration and flow rate would you suggest to use and for how many minutes?

I still would not recommend this method. There are better methods of administration and again ozone diffuses in to the tissues rapidly. So whether it is injected, done through insufflation or if you drink ozonated water the ozone will get to the tissues throughout the body.

Also, i have seen people chemically burned by using hot corona machines they were told were cold with an air source instead of oxygen. This leads to the formation of acids in contact with the sweat.

And you need to be careful to keep the ozone from escaping up in to the face where it can be inhaled.

If you still want to give this a try you will want a higher concentration, 90 gamma or higher and 20 minutes at a time would be fine. Remember that ozone takes time to absorb through the skin. And it takes time to breaks down. Therefore, after turning off the machine you can stay in the sauna for a little longer to allow time for the remaining ozone to absorb and break down before opening the sauna.

You mean try doing ozone with a high concentration while inside a sauna, with the heat compromising the ozone? Why not try doing ozone with a high concentration inside a body bag after finishing a sauna, with no heat to compromise the ozone? Do you believe that the former method has better chances of success than the latter? It seems counterintuitive to me.

Quote:I'm exploring this idea of hyperthermia followed quickly by ozone bagging because, first of all, just hyperthermia alone already has benefits of its own.

If you are talking about hyperthermia for cancer, yes this will work for cancer. When talking about hyperthermia though this is not done by far infrared. Instead the tumor is subjected to radiofrequency, which creates frictional heating within the tumor literally "cooking" the tumor since cancerous tumors cannot dissipate heat as readily as healthy tissue.

I'm thinking of whole body hyperthermia, not tumor localized. I believe in the systemic approach, not in mainstream medicine's myopic focus on treating the tumor as if it alone is the cancer. Something like Hippocrates' principle of inducing a fever-like state to create a healing reaction. I read that far infrared saunas increase the production of white blood cells, killer T-cells, and Interferon which fight cancer cell growth, and that infrared heat actually kills mutated cancer cells as the infrared rays are able to penetrate 2-3 inches deep into the body whereas steam heat could not do that. Also please see this article:

http://www.euro-med.us/cancer-treatment/sauna-therapy.cfm

Near the end it says:

Quote:Researching therapists have experimented with ozone chamber therapy without the added heat and moisture with a measure of success. However, there are many benefits of utilizing both heat and moisture with ozone therapy.

With the ozone pumping into the sauna chamber, a steam generator is used to feed hot steam into the sauna chamber. This produces several effects:

* The body's pores, due to both the heat and the steam, begin to open, which changes the exchange potential between the ambient gasses and the body.

- The combination between the open pores, the heat, and the ozone begins a detoxification process. Activated oxygen begins to react with substances with the highest oxidation potential, breaking these substances down.

- As the body begins to sweat, the exchange potential is further increased, resulting in increased adsorption of gasses/fluids, and increased excretion of toxic substances from the body (via the immune system regulated lymphatic response ).

* The ozone begins to breakdown rapidly: O3 ----> O2 + O-. There is little, IF ANY, ozone reaction deeper than the skin. Toxic substances are quickly broken down by ozone, and those which do not react with the ozone can react with the singlet, negatively charged oxygen ion ( O- ). There is no evidence, or reason to expect, that something as unstable as ozone actually penetrates through the skin and into the active metabolism of the body.

- As the body sweats, and as ozone breaks down, organic peroxides are created in the oils of the body being excreted from and existing in the skin. A small amount of ozone becomes trapped within these natural oils and newly created peroxides, which provides a sustained/prolonged effect of activated oxygen. This reaction is very similiar to creating ozinated oils.

- Even so, there is still no evidence to suggest that the ozone trapped within the oils actually reaches the bloodstream, or beyond the skin/lymphatic system. More likely, the ozone instantly reacts as it is freed from the oils, creating more organic peroxides and potentially releasing a single negatively charged atom of oxygen. It is these forms of oxygen doing all of the work inside the body.

* Evidence suggests that the body is very capable of utilizing these organic peroxides, as researchers have demonstrated that a byproduct of ozone sauna therapy is increased "fixed" free oxygen in the blood stream. The benefits of a single ozone sauna session have been documented to last as long as three weeks. Therefore, the highly reactive O3 molecule is eventually formed into stabilized oxygen molecules by the natural processes of the body.

* The entire lymphatic system is stimulated during therapy

* The skin is deeply cleansed

* If enough heat is used for a long enough time, a hypothermic response occurs in the body, and the body's internal temperature begins to rise. For the average individual, it takes between 12 and 15 minutes for the body's internal temperature to begin to rise in the presence of steam.

- For high heat therapy, the internal temperature should be monitored.

Sounds like a very beneficial treatment. That's why I like it. Shy

Quote:Secondly, if rectal insufflation is not an option due to the patient's diverting colostomy, I would like to find another good way to get ozone into his body, and maybe bagging would be a good way if done like I described.

Is the reason why you're advising against full body ozone bagging because it affects only the surface of the skin and does not allow ozone to get deep inside the body? But what if the pores of the skin are opened like I envisioned with the method I described? Wouldn't that allow the ozone to get deep inside, maybe even reaching the tumor eventually?

Again, not as effective as something like injection, autohemotherapy, insufflation or ozonated water. Saunas are going to be one of the least effective ways based on the reasons stated previously.

Quote:Also keep in mind that it is not a good idea to kill off too many cancer cells too quick as the dead cellular debris is infectious to the body. I recommending sticking to the insufflation primarily with a lot of water throughout the day. The water does not need to be ozonated each time, but maybe 3-4 times daily.

What's the reason for drinking a lot of water? Is it to promote elimination of dead cellular debris through the urine?

If you drink plenty of ozonated water, wouldn't that kill more cancer cells and thus exacerbate the problem of too much die-off?

Lastly, is it a good idea to take antioxidants before and after hyperthermic ozone treatment or any ozone treatment for that matter? I've read of a German clinic prescribing reduced glutathione (N-Acetyl Cysteine) plus anthocyanins before and after the treatment. They say the antioxidants help in case there's too much oxidation caused by the ozone. What do you think of this? What are the pros and cons?


RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - James - 05-23-2013 04:14 AM

(05-18-2013 05:57 PM)mtl777 Wrote:  
Quote:Proponents of ozone saunas argue that with a high enough flow rate, not all of the ozone are broken down and some of it is still absorbed. Something like if the rate of replenishment is sufficiently greater than the rate of breaking down of the ozone, then the rate differential still results in absorption of some ozone. What do you think of this?

Yes, some ozone will still absorb. How much is "some" though. Enough to do much good? The problem is that there are so many variables that how much gets absorbed and whether that is a sufficient level is unknown.

I guess you could turn up the flow rate so that hopefully more ozone will be absorbed. But then the ozone concentration will decrease if you do that. Sigh Undecided

Unless the ozone is administered under pressure in a chamber increasing the flow rate will not increase tissue saturation. In order to force the ozone in to the tissues the pressure has to be increased beyond what an ozone tent or sauna can withstand.

Quote:Also, is it true that if you are sweating you have to wipe off the sweat and turn off the heat to prevent further sweating otherwise the ozone won't be able to get in through the pores of your skin?

Sweat does not necessarily block the ozone, again the problem is more of breaking down the ozone.

Right. That's why I thought of getting out of the sauna, wiping off the sweat, getting inside a full body ozone bag, and introducing ozone into the bag. At this point the pores of the skin are still open due to the sauna that just finished. With the sweat wiped off there is no more sweat to break down the ozone, and with the pores still open, ozone can easily be absorbed through the pores. At least that's what I hope to achieve in coming up with this idea -- in theory. Do you think it will work like I envision it in practice?

Not necessarily. Keep in mind that in a bag you are still going to sweat. And in addition, just wiping off the sweat does not remove all the moisture, salts, ammonia compounds, bacteria, etc. that the ozone can react.

I might have the wrong presumption that the pores are open. Do the pores really remain open shortly after finishing a sauna? If so, how long do they remain open after body exposure to heat is stopped?

The pores will open with the heat, but this is not going to make much of a difference for several reasons. First of all the ozone readily permeates the tissues regardless if the pores or open or not since it does not have to enter through the pores. The problem of how well ozone absorbs through the skin depends on what is on the skin. Moisture, bacteria, oils, etc. on the skin all react with the ozone breaking a lot of the ozone down before it can be absorbed.

Quote:So, assuming that this method will work as I envision it, i.e., the ozone is really able to be absorbed through the pores and then it circulates in the lymph system and maybe also in the bloodstream, what ozone concentration and flow rate would you suggest to use and for how many minutes?

I still would not recommend this method. There are better methods of administration and again ozone diffuses in to the tissues rapidly. So whether it is injected, done through insufflation or if you drink ozonated water the ozone will get to the tissues throughout the body.

Also, i have seen people chemically burned by using hot corona machines they were told were cold with an air source instead of oxygen. This leads to the formation of acids in contact with the sweat.

And you need to be careful to keep the ozone from escaping up in to the face where it can be inhaled.

If you still want to give this a try you will want a higher concentration, 90 gamma or higher and 20 minutes at a time would be fine. Remember that ozone takes time to absorb through the skin. And it takes time to breaks down. Therefore, after turning off the machine you can stay in the sauna for a little longer to allow time for the remaining ozone to absorb and break down before opening the sauna.

You mean try doing ozone with a high concentration while inside a sauna, with the heat compromising the ozone? Why not try doing ozone with a high concentration inside a body bag after finishing a sauna, with no heat to compromise the ozone? Do you believe that the former method has better chances of success than the latter? It seems counterintuitive to me.

Its really not counter intuitive. Even if you turn the heat off it will take time for the body to cool, which means more sweat breaking down the ozone. And the pores do not need to be opened up for the ozone to absorb.

Quote:I'm exploring this idea of hyperthermia followed quickly by ozone bagging because, first of all, just hyperthermia alone already has benefits of its own.

If you are talking about hyperthermia for cancer, yes this will work for cancer. When talking about hyperthermia though this is not done by far infrared. Instead the tumor is subjected to radiofrequency, which creates frictional heating within the tumor literally "cooking" the tumor since cancerous tumors cannot dissipate heat as readily as healthy tissue.

I'm thinking of whole body hyperthermia, not tumor localized. I believe in the systemic approach, not in mainstream medicine's myopic focus on treating the tumor as if it alone is the cancer. Something like Hippocrates' principle of inducing a fever-like state to create a healing reaction. I read that far infrared saunas increase the production of white blood cells, killer T-cells, and Interferon which fight cancer cell growth, and that infrared heat actually kills mutated cancer cells as the infrared rays are able to penetrate 2-3 inches deep into the body whereas steam heat could not do that. Also please see this article:

http://www.euro-med.us/cancer-treatment/sauna-therapy.cfm

Near the end it says:

Quote:Researching therapists have experimented with ozone chamber therapy without the added heat and moisture with a measure of success. However, there are many benefits of utilizing both heat and moisture with ozone therapy.

The problem with this statement is that it is very vague. Ozone can be administered in a variety of ways for one thing. Therefore, their statement means nothing without specific details such as how specifically the ozone was administered and what specifically the results they got were. For example, the statement does imply that they could have been using ozone saunas, but not necessarily. They could have given the person a sauna treatment, which would have been the heat and moisture and the ozone through a different means such as insufflation and their statement would still apply.

In addition, there is nothing stating what their "benefits" were or how they compared to other forms of administration. They could have had minimal benefits and they could still be listed as "benefits".


With the ozone pumping into the sauna chamber, a steam generator is used to feed hot steam into the sauna chamber. This produces several effects:

* The body's pores, due to both the heat and the steam, begin to open, which changes the exchange potential between the ambient gasses and the body.

I disagree, again ozone can rapidly diffuse through tissues. The pores do not have to be opened to do this.

- The combination between the open pores, the heat, and the ozone begins a detoxification process. Activated oxygen begins to react with substances with the highest oxidation potential, breaking these substances down.

Which is my earlier point. Things on the skin such as water, salts, ammonia, bacteria, etc. all react with the ozone breaking down much of the ozone long before it can be absorbed. To make things worse the heat and moisture from the sauna itself also breaks down the ozone. Not only does this make the use of ozone in saunas very inefficient, but there is no way to even closely gauge how much ozone is actually making it in to the bloodstream as can be done with many other forms of administration.

- As the body begins to sweat, the exchange potential is further increased, resulting in increased adsorption of gasses/fluids, and increased excretion of toxic substances from the body (via the immune system regulated lymphatic response ).

How can there be a greater "exchange potential" when there is a greater breakdown of the ozone before it has a chance to enter the body? And if they had a clue what they were talking about then they would know that the lymphatic system is only one part of the detox system. Over all it all sounds like a bunch of sales hype.

In fact, common sense puts their claim in to question. They say "as the body begins to sweat, the exchange potential is further increased, resulting in increased adsorption of gasses/fluids". See the flaws in their statement? First of all the process would involve absorption, not adsorption. Secondly, if they want to stick to the word adsorption then they are backing what I have been saying about the reaction of the ozone outside the body, which would breaks the ozone down in the process preventing its absorption. And if this this is the case then the gases and the fluid (water) would be reacting, not absorbing. In fact, the water is not going to absorb in the first place since the moisture is being expelled through the skin.


* The ozone begins to breakdown rapidly: O3 ----> O2 + O-. There is little, IF ANY, ozone reaction deeper than the skin.

If this were true then this would further back my point that the ozone is being destroyed before it could enter the bloodstream.


Toxic substances are quickly broken down by ozone, and those which do not react with the ozone can react with the singlet, negatively charged oxygen ion ( O- ).

[undefined=undefined]It is the reaction with the singlet oxygen of ozone that destroys the "toxic substances" as well as forms the peroxides that a large part of the beneficial activity of ozone. The first two oxygen atoms in ozone have paired electrons and and therefore stable. It is the third oxygen with an unpaired electron that makes ozone so reactive. And when we get in to "long chain ozone" (O4+) it is again the release of singlet oxygen atoms that create the powerful oxidative effects.[/undefined]

There is no evidence, or reason to expect, that something as unstable as ozone actually penetrates through the skin and into the active metabolism of the body.

Again, not true. But how much ozone actually enters the bloodstream will depend a lot on form of administration. But as with the external application by steam sauna the internal administration will lead to a quick decomposition of the ozone again due to the presence of heat, moisture and singlet oxygen reactive compounds.

- As the body sweats, and as ozone breaks down, organic peroxides are created in the oils of the body being excreted from and existing in the skin. A small amount of ozone becomes trapped within these natural oils and newly created peroxides, which provides a sustained/prolonged effect of activated oxygen. This reaction is very similiar to creating ozinated oils.

OK, they finally got something partially right, but they also show their contradiction in their statements.

Yes, ozone will form peroxides. Not all the peroxide is organic peroxide though. Ozone reacts with water forming hydrogen peroxide, which is not an organic peroxide. The organic peroxides formed are lipid peroxides formed by the reaction of ozone with lipids (fats), which include those of cell membranes. Again this is a large part of the basis behind how ozone therapy works, especially for the destruction of cancer cells.

So for the contradiction. First they claim that no ozone makes it in to the body. So if all the activity is outside the body then how is the ozone helping to detox anything in the body? In order for this to happen either the ozone or the peroxides would have to get in to the body. If the peroxides are being absorbed then why not the ozone trapped in the peroxides as they claim? And if moisture is being pumped out through the pores from the steam sauna again how would any of these peroxides get absorbed through the skin, especially when the sweating is just providing more compounds to break down the ozone by the singlet oxygen reacting with the substances such as salts and oils?


- Even so, there is still no evidence to suggest that the ozone trapped within the oils actually reaches the bloodstream, or beyond the skin/lymphatic system. More likely, the ozone instantly reacts as it is freed from the oils, creating more organic peroxides and potentially releasing a single negatively charged atom of oxygen. It is these forms of oxygen doing all of the work inside the body.

They are somewhat on track with that statement. The breakdown of the peroxides, but again that are not all organic peroxides, produces singlet oxygen that can create a chain reaction. This still leads us back to the question of how are these peroxides getting in to the body to detox the body when they skin is pumping out moisture and thus washing the peroxides away in the process?

* Evidence suggests that the body is very capable of utilizing these organic peroxides, as researchers have demonstrated that a byproduct of ozone sauna therapy is increased "fixed" free oxygen in the blood stream. The benefits of a single ozone sauna session have been documented to last as long as three weeks. Therefore, the highly reactive O3 molecule is eventually formed into stabilized oxygen molecules by the natural processes of the body.

Again this is very misleading. Yes, ozone can raise the oxygen levels in the blood but only to a small amount and not sustained. Secondly, the peroxides do not last 3 weeks in the blood. Not even close to that. If they did we would be in serious trouble as this could overwhelm our antioxidant systems. This is why we have antioxidant enzymes such as catalase and superoxide dismutase that rapidly break down these peroxides in healthy cells. And again, if we use some common sense how can it be explained that the ozone or peroxides are raising oxygen levels in the blood? Peroxide does not increase oxygen levels. It is breakdown of ozone or peroxides forming O2 that increases the oxygen levels in the blood. Once as O2 though the oxygen atom is pretty stable and no longer produces peroxide. So once again their statements are contradictory.

The more long term effects of ozone therapy are not from the peroxides but rather the increase in cytokines stimulated by the ozone.


* The entire lymphatic system is stimulated during therapy

Again how? They are claiming the ozone never enters the bloodstream. And the peroxides would be pushed out and washed away by the sweating from the steam sauna.

* The skin is deeply cleansed

Same as my last statement. The only part of the skin that would be cleansed is the surface due to the reaction of ozone with moisture, salts, oils, bacteria, etc. on the skin surface.

By the way, I wonder if they are aware of the fact that the peroxides formed are astringent and thus constrict the pores? This is why ozone steam facials are so popular in Europe. The ozone cleans the skin and pores while tightening up the skin due to its astringent effect. But again, the astringent effect closes the pores. So again, their comments about the steam sauna opening the pores is contradictory to what is actually known about the effects of peroxides on the skin.


* If enough heat is used for a long enough time, a hypothermic response occurs in the body, and the body's internal temperature begins to rise. For the average individual, it takes between 12 and 15 minutes for the body's internal temperature to begin to rise in the presence of steam.

That would be hyperthermic, not hypothermic, which is a lowering of the body temperature.

- For high heat therapy, the internal temperature should be monitored.

That I agree with. And they should also be keeping in mind that hyperthermia is not safe for some individuals such as the elderly since temperature regulation by the body can be an issue with the elderly.

Sounds like a very beneficial treatment. That's why I like it. Shy

Quote:Secondly, if rectal insufflation is not an option due to the patient's diverting colostomy, I would like to find another good way to get ozone into his body, and maybe bagging would be a good way if done like I described.

Is the reason why you're advising against full body ozone bagging because it affects only the surface of the skin and does not allow ozone to get deep inside the body?

No, because ozone does get in to the body. The problems are insufficient effectiveness and inability to really regulate how much ozone is actually being administered and absorbed.

But what if the pores of the skin are opened like I envisioned with the method I described? Wouldn't that allow the ozone to get deep inside, maybe even reaching the tumor eventually?

Again, trying to open the pores is not going to make a difference. Ozone does not require open pores for absorption. Secondly, as I pointed out above the formation of peroxides will actually tighten the pores since peroxides are astringent. As I also mentioned in a previous post bagging is one of the least efficient means of ozone administration. Why waste all the money on a steam sauna, an ozone tent or other devices for external administration when ozonated water for example will yield superior results at a fraction of the cost?

Again, not as effective as something like injection, autohemotherapy, insufflation or ozonated water. Saunas are going to be one of the least effective ways based on the reasons stated previously.

Quote:Also keep in mind that it is not a good idea to kill off too many cancer cells too quick as the dead cellular debris is infectious to the body. I recommending sticking to the insufflation primarily with a lot of water throughout the day. The water does not need to be ozonated each time, but maybe 3-4 times daily.

What's the reason for drinking a lot of water? Is it to promote elimination of dead cellular debris through the urine?
[b
Yes, it aids in the dilution and elimination of cellular debris and byproducts such as uric acid.[/b]

If you drink plenty of ozonated water, wouldn't that kill more cancer cells and thus exacerbate the problem of too much die-off?

It can. But the water being consumed should be primarily spring water, not ozonated water. Having a glass of ozonated water a few times a day will not be an issue since the ozone concentration will be nowhere that of insufflation and some of it again will be broken down before absorption. This still helps though primarily through immune stimulation such as increasing cytokines and white blood cell activity.


Lastly, is it a good idea to take antioxidants before and after hyperthermic ozone treatment or any ozone treatment for that matter? I've read of a German clinic prescribing reduced glutathione (N-Acetyl Cysteine) plus anthocyanins before and after the treatment. They say the antioxidants help in case there's too much oxidation caused by the ozone. What do you think of this? What are the pros and cons?

Yes, this is true. Same with people undergoing chemotherapy and radiation therapy. Many doctors erroneously think that this will inhibit these "oxidative" therapies. What they fail to realize is that cancer cells cannot utilize antioxidants the way healthy cells can. This is the same reason cancer cells are prone to the oxidative destruction by properly administered ozone as where healthy cells are not.

So yes, antioxidants taken on a regular basis is very important. Especially antioxidants associated with superoxide dismutase such as zinc and copper.



RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - mtl777 - 05-25-2013 01:33 AM

Quote:I might have the wrong presumption that the pores are open. Do the pores really remain open shortly after finishing a sauna? If so, how long do they remain open after body exposure to heat is stopped?

The pores will open with the heat, but this is not going to make much of a difference for several reasons. First of all the ozone readily permeates the tissues regardless if the pores or open or not since it does not have to enter through the pores. The problem of how well ozone absorbs through the skin depends on what is on the skin. Moisture, bacteria, oils, etc. on the skin all react with the ozone breaking a lot of the ozone down before it can be absorbed.

Thanks James! I guess this finally settles the question.

Quote:- For high heat therapy, the internal temperature should be monitored.

That I agree with. And they should also be keeping in mind that hyperthermia is not safe for some individuals such as the elderly since temperature regulation by the body can be an issue with the elderly.

What elderly age, at the minimum, would you consider as unsafe for hyperthermia?

Quote:Lastly, is it a good idea to take antioxidants before and after hyperthermic ozone treatment or any ozone treatment for that matter? I've read of a German clinic prescribing reduced glutathione (N-Acetyl Cysteine) plus anthocyanins before and after the treatment. They say the antioxidants help in case there's too much oxidation caused by the ozone. What do you think of this? What are the pros and cons?

Yes, this is true. Same with people undergoing chemotherapy and radiation therapy. Many doctors erroneously think that this will inhibit these "oxidative" therapies. What they fail to realize is that cancer cells cannot utilize antioxidants the way healthy cells can. This is the same reason cancer cells are prone to the oxidative destruction by properly administered ozone as where healthy cells are not.

So yes, antioxidants taken on a regular basis is very important. Especially antioxidants associated with superoxide dismutase such as zinc and copper.

Should you have some spacing, say, at least one hour before and after ozone therapy when taking antioxidants? If so, how long a spacing would you recommend?

And copper is also an antioxidant? Does copper enhance SOD or are you just recommending it to balance the zinc?

Thanks again!


RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - James - 05-28-2013 04:42 AM

Quote:- For high heat therapy, the internal temperature should be monitored.

That I agree with. And they should also be keeping in mind that hyperthermia is not safe for some individuals such as the elderly since temperature regulation by the body can be an issue with the elderly.

What elderly age, at the minimum, would you consider as unsafe for hyperthermia?

There is really no minimum age since problems with the heart or lungs can occur at most ages, but increases with age. Just make sure the person is healthy enough to take the strain of the therapy. Mainly that they do not have heart issues such as congestive heart failure or respiratory issues such as COPD.


Quote:Lastly, is it a good idea to take antioxidants before and after hyperthermic ozone treatment or any ozone treatment for that matter? I've read of a German clinic prescribing reduced glutathione (N-Acetyl Cysteine) plus anthocyanins before and after the treatment. They say the antioxidants help in case there's too much oxidation caused by the ozone. What do you think of this? What are the pros and cons?

Yes, this is true. Same with people undergoing chemotherapy and radiation therapy. Many doctors erroneously think that this will inhibit these "oxidative" therapies. What they fail to realize is that cancer cells cannot utilize antioxidants the way healthy cells can. This is the same reason cancer cells are prone to the oxidative destruction by properly administered ozone as where healthy cells are not.

So yes, antioxidants taken on a regular basis is very important. Especially antioxidants associated with superoxide dismutase such as zinc and copper.

Should you have some spacing, say, at least one hour before and after ozone therapy when taking antioxidants? If so, how long a spacing would you recommend?

I would focus mainly on taking them before the therapy since the body will need them to help protect the healthy cells. A couple of hours before would be good to make sure they are absorbed.

And copper is also an antioxidant? Does copper enhance SOD or are you just recommending it to balance the zinc?

The copper helps with oxidative stress by its use in the production of copper-SOD. There are other forms of SOD as well including zinc-SOD.

[/quote]


RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - mtl777 - 05-30-2013 02:39 PM

Thank you so much James! These info are very helpful.


RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - James - 06-04-2013 06:57 PM

(05-30-2013 02:39 PM)mtl777 Wrote:  Thank you so much James! These info are very helpful.

You're welcome.


RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - James - 08-30-2013 11:46 PM

(05-06-2013 04:02 PM)mtl777 Wrote:  Hi James, I read from one of your posts in CZ that if you introduce ozone into a conventional steam sauna the ozone degrades rapidly into oxygen due to the hot ambient air and moisture inside the sauna. If you use a far infrared sauna instead, will you be able to avoid this problem since far infrared does not heat the ambient air (or if it does, only slightly)?

I don't care for ozone saunas regardless since the ozone is not absorbed well through the skin. The ozone can still react with oils, bacteria, etc. on the skin long before it gets a chance to absorb.

Bagging and saunas as far as I am concerned are really best only for external infections such as staph infections of the skin. It is also good for halting the progression of gangrene. Otherwise, ozone is best used internally for most applications.

FIR will solve the problem of some ozone breakdown due to the absence of heat and moisture as is the problem in heated saunas.


Also, is it true that if you are sweating you have to wipe off the sweat and turn off the heat to prevent further sweating otherwise the ozone won't be able to get in through the pores of your skin?

Again it does not matter if you are sweating or not. The ozone still will not penetrate the skin efficiently since much of the ozone will react with other things on the skin and even other ozone molecules during the slow absorption. If you want to make the most of ozone it is best used internally for the majority of conditions.

Lastly, if you're going to do this - sweat inside the sauna, get out of it, wipe off the sweat, rest for 3 minutes, get inside a full body ozone bag, and introduce ozone into the bag - what ozone concentration and flow rate would you suggest to use and for how many minutes?

If using a cold corona unit I would go with at least 80 gamma for 30-40 minutes. Do not use a hot corona if using air as a starting gas since this can form acids that can burn the skin. We had a guy here in Vegas who had no clue what he was doing with his ozone unit and ended injuring several people I knew who went to him. One got severe burns from his using compressed air with a hot corona unit he kept insisting was cold corona despite my pointing out to him otherwise. In this case he was using an ozone sauna and at least put a towel around my friends neck to prevent the ozone from going in to her face. But she was sweating under the towel and the sweat reacted with the nitrogen and sulfur oxides produced by the hot corona machine creating chemical burns of her skin. Cold corona units will not generate these acids when air is used as a starter gas.

Just trying to find better ways to do hyperthermic ozone therapy and make it more effective. Thanks in advance for your most appreciated help!

Internal ozone applications are far superior to ozone saunas.



RE: Questions on Hyperthermic Ozone Therapy - mtl777 - 11-12-2013 04:35 PM

Hi James, about ozonated water, does it kill the friendly flora in your gut? Do you need to take pre/probiotics if you drink ozonated water?

Thanks!