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Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - HealthLover - 07-11-2012 09:18 AM

Hi James,

I am full of questions today. Smile

I like slippery elm to keep my gastritis at bay- I just take it a bit after querticin because of my tree allergies.

It also helps to take my bitters with it because the bitters hurt my stomach. I always read to take slippery elm between meals because it can interfere with nutrient absorption- I know this is unrelated to bitters, but what about doing other liver clearing things like lemon water or juicing with slippery elm? Those also hurt my stomach and would be good to do with the slippery elm, but I don't know if nutrient absorption is an issue somehow.

Can I take my herbs and then slippery elm 20-30 minutes later like any food, or does there need to be more of a separation?

Also, around ovulation I find liver clearing things can actually make me feel *more estrogenic- my breasts hurt, can't sleep, etc. If I back off of the liver clearing stuff, I actually feel better. I cannot figure this out for the life of me. I would think when estrogen surges, more liver clearing would be better. Could it be that my liver cannot handle the clearing *and the excess estrogen at once? What would be best for me to do- just back down as I have been doing?

Thank you, as always!


RE: Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - James - 07-12-2012 10:14 PM

(07-11-2012 09:18 AM)HealthLover Wrote:  Hi James,

I am full of questions today. Smile

I like slippery elm to keep my gastritis at bay- I just take it a bit after querticin because of my tree allergies.

It also helps to take my bitters with it because the bitters hurt my stomach. I always read to take slippery elm between meals because it can interfere with nutrient absorption- I know this is unrelated to bitters, but what about doing other liver clearing things like lemon water or juicing with slippery elm? Those also hurt my stomach and would be good to do with the slippery elm, but I don't know if nutrient absorption is an issue somehow.

The belief is that the mucilage formed by the slippery elm will coat the intestines inhibiting absorption.

Can I take my herbs and then slippery elm 20-30 minutes later like any food, or does there need to be more of a separation?

Thirty minutes should be fine.

Also, around ovulation I find liver clearing things can actually make me feel *more estrogenic- my breasts hurt, can't sleep, etc. If I back off of the liver clearing stuff, I actually feel better. I cannot figure this out for the life of me. I would think when estrogen surges, more liver clearing would be better. Could it be that my liver cannot handle the clearing *and the excess estrogen at once? What would be best for me to do- just back down as I have been doing?

It would help to know specifically what you are taking or doing that is making you feel worse around that time.

Have you tried trimethylglycine (TMG) though as a means to help with your hormone control? The liver breaks down excess estrogen through a process known as methylation. If you are not absorbing the nutrients needed to make the body's methyl donor SAMe then this would interfere with the liver's ability to break down the excess estrogens. TMG is three times more effective that SAMe and will also help the liver with breaking down excess estrogens.


Thank you, as always!

You're welcome.



RE: Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - HealthLover - 07-15-2012 12:58 PM

The belief is that the mucilage formed by the slippery elm will coat the intestines inhibiting absorption.

If I take lemon water with the slippery elm (lemon can make my stomach hurt), will I lessen the liver clearing properties of the lemon water? I don't know if that is dependent on absorption.

Also, if i wanted to have a spicy meal, would I then not absorb the meal's nutrients if taken with the slippery elm?

How long after taking slippery elm do you lose the protection to the stomach?

And why, if acid it helpful to gastritis, do foods like tomato and lemon bother it?

Are there any other bacteria that cause gastritis other than H.Pylori? My blood test was negative for that, and I thought perhaps I just had inflammation for some other reason.
*******

Also, around ovulation I find liver clearing things can actually make me feel *more estrogenic- my breasts hurt, can't sleep, etc. If I back off of the liver clearing stuff, I actually feel better. I cannot figure this out for the life of me. I would think when estrogen surges, more liver clearing would be better. Could it be that my liver cannot handle the clearing *and the excess estrogen at once? What would be best for me to do- just back down as I have been doing?

It would help to know specifically what you are taking or doing that is making you feel worse around that time.

I am doing/taking what I always do for liver clearning. That is the perplexing thing.
Milk thistle
Dandelion Root
Bitters
Calcium d-glucarate


Have you tried trimethylglycine (TMG) though as a means to help with your hormone control? The liver breaks down excess estrogen through a process known as methylation. If you are not absorbing the nutrients needed to make the body's methyl donor SAMe then this would interfere with the liver's ability to break down the excess estrogens. TMG is three times more effective that SAMe and will also help the liver with breaking down excess estrogens.


What nutrients do I need to make SAMe?

I was worried because I read that TMG has stimulating properties. I tend to have trouble with things that do that. For instance, I even have to be careful with L-glutamine as far as when/how much I take. Amino acids will interfere with my sleep.

Thank you, as always!

You're welcome.
[/quote]


[/quote]


RE: Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - James - 07-16-2012 07:05 PM

(07-15-2012 12:58 PM)HealthLover Wrote:  The belief is that the mucilage formed by the slippery elm will coat the intestines inhibiting absorption.

If I take lemon water with the slippery elm (lemon can make my stomach hurt), will I lessen the liver clearing properties of the lemon water? I don't know if that is dependent on absorption.

Slippery elm should not cause stomach pain. It actually coats the stomach to help prevent stomach irritation. So it probably has something to do with the lemon juice.

Also, if i wanted to have a spicy meal, would I then not absorb the meal's nutrients if taken with the slippery elm?

The whole thing about slippery elm is hypothetical. I have never seen any real evidence proving that it will block absorption. It probably could if taken in excessive amounts, but in the average amount taken by most people there would not be enough to coat the entire intestine sufficiently to block absorption. So I personally would not worry about it.

How long after taking slippery elm do you lose the protection to the stomach?

Once it empties out of the stomach. So I would say around a couple of hours.

And why, if acid it helpful to gastritis, do foods like tomato and lemon bother it?

Because there is inflammation the acid can irritate the stomach lining. But acids can also help inhibit pathogens that can cause gastritis. One pathogen though, H. pylori, can release highly alkaline ammonia to neutralize any acids to protect itself.


Are there any other bacteria that cause gastritis other than H.Pylori? My blood test was negative for that, and I thought perhaps I just had inflammation for some other reason.

Blood tests are not that accurate for infections. A breath test or biopsy would be a lot more accurate.

Yes, there are other bacteria that can cause gastritis as well as fungi, parasites and several viruses. But there are also various other causes of gastritis that do not involve pathogens.

*******

Also, around ovulation I find liver clearing things can actually make me feel *more estrogenic- my breasts hurt, can't sleep, etc. If I back off of the liver clearing stuff, I actually feel better. I cannot figure this out for the life of me. I would think when estrogen surges, more liver clearing would be better. Could it be that my liver cannot handle the clearing *and the excess estrogen at once? What would be best for me to do- just back down as I have been doing?

It would help to know specifically what you are taking or doing that is making you feel worse around that time.

I am doing/taking what I always do for liver clearning. That is the perplexing thing.
Milk thistle
Dandelion Root
Bitters
Calcium d-glucarate
[b]
Milk thistle only cleanses the liver if used as a bitter.

I would consider dandelion root to be more supportive than cleansing as well.

The bitters will help with cleansing the liver, but you need to limit how much you take in a dose. I only recommend a half a dropper full, which is well below what directions state. Many bitters contain berberine herbs that can kill the flora if taken in larger doses. Since the flora help regulate estrogen through the breakdown of estrogen metabolites killing the flora with too much berberine could be an issue.

Calcium d-glucarate is dependent on stomach acid for it to break down in to its active components. With gastritis though there is generally a lack of stomach acid so it is not likely to do much of anything for you.


Have you tried trimethylglycine (TMG) though as a means to help with your hormone control? The liver breaks down excess estrogen through a process known as methylation. If you are not absorbing the nutrients needed to make the body's methyl donor SAMe then this would interfere with the liver's ability to break down the excess estrogens. TMG is three times more effective that SAMe and will also help the liver with breaking down excess estrogens.[/b]

What nutrients do I need to make SAMe?

B6, B12, folate and methionine. These can also be acid dependent for absorption.


I was worried because I read that TMG has stimulating properties. I tend to have trouble with things that do that. For instance, I even have to be careful with L-glutamine as far as when/how much I take. Amino acids will interfere with my sleep.

TMG is not really a central nervous system stimulant. Actually more of the opposite as it breaks down in to glycine, which increases calming GABA.

The word stimulant can be confusing as people generally think of central nervous system stimulation when they hear the word in conjunction with the body. But you can stimulate things such as hormone or neurotransmitter production or stimulate the immune system. Therefore substances can be stimulatory but not be central nervous system stimulants.



RE: Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - HealthLover - 07-18-2012 07:54 AM

If my liver is not working well could this chain of events happen due to poor liver function?:

1. I ingest a good amount of phytoestrogens with milk thistle and dandelion root.
2. While these block the stronger estrogens at the receptor sites, those stronger estrogens still need to be processed through the liver- which isn't working very well.
3. There is a net effect of an increase in estrogens in the body- phytoestrogens + my normal estrogen.
4. While the dandelion root and milk thistle enhance my liver function, I need a much stronger clearing effect to lesson my body's estrogen load.
5. When ovulation comes, I pass my threshold for estrogen clearing and I feel worse with the dandelion and milk thistle than if I don't have those phytoestrogens in my body.

Is this possible? Or would my normal estrogens only effect me if they are on recpetors? That is, can they be floating around in my body and not affect anything?

So, back to bitters and taking come kefir for acid w/ my calcium d-glucarate.

Thank you.


RE: Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - Gwynn - 05-23-2013 05:05 PM

When is the best time to take bitters?

Thanks,
Gwynn


RE: Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - James - 05-26-2013 03:53 AM

(07-18-2012 07:54 AM)HealthLover Wrote:  If my liver is not working well could this chain of events happen due to poor liver function?:

1. I ingest a good amount of phytoestrogens with milk thistle and dandelion root.
2. While these block the stronger estrogens at the receptor sites, those stronger estrogens still need to be processed through the liver- which isn't working very well.
3. There is a net effect of an increase in estrogens in the body- phytoestrogens + my normal estrogen.
4. While the dandelion root and milk thistle enhance my liver function, I need a much stronger clearing effect to lesson my body's estrogen load.
5. When ovulation comes, I pass my threshold for estrogen clearing and I feel worse with the dandelion and milk thistle than if I don't have those phytoestrogens in my body.

Is this possible? Or would my normal estrogens only effect me if they are on recpetors? That is, can they be floating around in my body and not affect anything?

So, back to bitters and taking come kefir for acid w/ my calcium d-glucarate.

Thank you.

Keep in mind that the phytoestrogens cannot lock up every estrogen receptor in the body. Therefore, the stronger estrogens will still have an effect on the body if in excess. The phytoestrogens simple lessen the side effects of the excess estrogen.

Improving liver function, especially with bitters and maybe a methyl donor such as trimethylglycine (TMG) would be the best ways to get the hormone levels back down to normal.



RE: Slippery Elm & Liver Clearing things - James - 05-26-2013 03:59 AM

(05-23-2013 05:05 PM)Gwynn Wrote:  When is the best time to take bitters?

Thanks,
Gwynn

Before meals. Start out slow though such as once a day for a few days then work up to three times a day. This is because the bitters can cause a "detox reaction" making you feel ill when you first start out. This is also why I recommend drinking plenty of water throughout the day when using bitters to help dilute the garbage being released in to the bloodstream and to help with the elimination.

You only need enough to taste the bitterness so I recommend a 1/2 dropper full, which should be around a 1/4 teaspoon on the tongue. Then swallow the liquid. You will really taste the bitterness when you swallow as the bitters hit the bitter receptors on the back of the tongue.

The taste can be a little rough at first, but you can get used to the taste with time.